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	<title>Comments on: Why Social Media ROI Is A Compass And Not A Green Light</title>
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	<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/</link>
	<description>Social media and inbound marketing for non-profits</description>
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		<title>By: Web Design Kent</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-6946</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Design Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-6946</guid>
		<description>I think issue isn&#039;t really whether or not social media ROI applies, it&#039;s how it can be applied. It&#039;s relatively straightforward in a targeted campaign where you have defined goals, resources and measurables, such as leads and sales over time. Where it breaks down is discussing general corporate strategy and PR. Then you enter the frontier of discussing vague measurables such as brand awareness without really knowing how a measurable translates into dollars and cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think issue isn&#39;t really whether or not social media ROI applies, it&#39;s how it can be applied. It&#39;s relatively straightforward in a targeted campaign where you have defined goals, resources and measurables, such as leads and sales over time. Where it breaks down is discussing general corporate strategy and PR. Then you enter the frontier of discussing vague measurables such as brand awareness without really knowing how a measurable translates into dollars and cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Web Design Kent</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-5602</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Design Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-5602</guid>
		<description>I think issue isn&#039;t really whether or not social media ROI applies, it&#039;s how it can be applied. It&#039;s relatively straightforward in a targeted campaign where you have defined goals, resources and measurables, such as leads and sales over time. Where it breaks down is discussing general corporate strategy and PR. Then you enter the frontier of discussing vague measurables such as brand awareness without really knowing how a measurable translates into dollars and cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think issue isn&#39;t really whether or not social media ROI applies, it&#39;s how it can be applied. It&#39;s relatively straightforward in a targeted campaign where you have defined goals, resources and measurables, such as leads and sales over time. Where it breaks down is discussing general corporate strategy and PR. Then you enter the frontier of discussing vague measurables such as brand awareness without really knowing how a measurable translates into dollars and cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb Braidic</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1644</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb Braidic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 21:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1644</guid>
		<description>Hi John,

Great post - I absolutely loved it.

Our organization is just getting its feet wet with social networking and we have primed our leadership for establishing 90-day strategies because of exactly what you wrote about above.  And our first 90-day strategy is listening - how do you put an ROI metric on listening?

For us, we haven&#039;t been &quot;listening&quot; so far, so the ROI will simply be the fact that we hope to have people engaged with us who are in an &quot;OMG, so surprised that they&#039;re listening to us&quot; mode.  Hopefully, we can be successful at this.

I hope in the near future, to have applicable metrics, but it is really tough to come up with what they might be at this early stage of the game.

My mantra these days is that it is tough to be a pioneer:). I really appreciate your pointers along the way though.  Keep &#039;em coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>Great post &#8211; I absolutely loved it.</p>
<p>Our organization is just getting its feet wet with social networking and we have primed our leadership for establishing 90-day strategies because of exactly what you wrote about above.  And our first 90-day strategy is listening &#8211; how do you put an ROI metric on listening?</p>
<p>For us, we haven&#8217;t been &#8220;listening&#8221; so far, so the ROI will simply be the fact that we hope to have people engaged with us who are in an &#8220;OMG, so surprised that they&#8217;re listening to us&#8221; mode.  Hopefully, we can be successful at this.</p>
<p>I hope in the near future, to have applicable metrics, but it is really tough to come up with what they might be at this early stage of the game.</p>
<p>My mantra these days is that it is tough to be a pioneer:). I really appreciate your pointers along the way though.  Keep &#8216;em coming.</p>
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		<title>By: johnscotthaydon</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1636</link>
		<dc:creator>johnscotthaydon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1636</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@Val&lt;/b&gt; - Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I can&#039;t wait until we are at the point where we can do meaningful benchmarking with social media results. Imagine the value in being able to slice and dice by industry and social media site?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@Val</b> &#8211; Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I can&#8217;t wait until we are at the point where we can do meaningful benchmarking with social media results. Imagine the value in being able to slice and dice by industry and social media site?</p>
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		<title>By: Val Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1628</link>
		<dc:creator>Val Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1628</guid>
		<description>This is a great discussion, reminding me of one I had with a foundation president about 10 years ago. He asked, &quot;So, do you think fundraising on the internet will catch on?&quot; My response was, &quot;Do you think calling donors on the phone caught on?&quot; The telephone was once a new twechnology that few possessed or understood. But we don&#039;t think of the phone as a tool that raises money independently. It&#039;s just one of the ways we connect with people who share our convictions/concerns/interests.

When I first work with a client, I ask, &quot;what is the best way to communicate with you?&quot; and am often surprised by the answer. Some people are online-holics, some say fax (go figgur!), some only respond to phone calls, etc. The immediate ROI might be, &quot;How many donors (which?) would you lose if you aren&#039;t using social networking regularly?&quot; I actually think that&#039;s pretty quanitfiable, as most non-profits have to describe their donor/constituent profiles in foundation proposals. Similarly, &quot;How many/which donor circles from your constituent profile will respond if you do cultivate them in this way?&quot; Again, in fundraising at least, we assume that each donor can, when motivated, leverage another 4-5 to the cause.

The other ROI I think could be useful is regular benchmarking. If we know what similar mission/size/operating budget non-profits are achieving with social networks, we can see whether we are ahead/behind/beside... with some numbers. Fundraising is quanitfiable and measurable, certainly, but it is a measure of the harvest, not what was planted 9 months ago and nurtured every day since. I am a big fan of starting small, as then you can make your mistakes, develop your style, in a small arena, and make wiser decisions when you expand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great discussion, reminding me of one I had with a foundation president about 10 years ago. He asked, &#8220;So, do you think fundraising on the internet will catch on?&#8221; My response was, &#8220;Do you think calling donors on the phone caught on?&#8221; The telephone was once a new twechnology that few possessed or understood. But we don&#8217;t think of the phone as a tool that raises money independently. It&#8217;s just one of the ways we connect with people who share our convictions/concerns/interests.</p>
<p>When I first work with a client, I ask, &#8220;what is the best way to communicate with you?&#8221; and am often surprised by the answer. Some people are online-holics, some say fax (go figgur!), some only respond to phone calls, etc. The immediate ROI might be, &#8220;How many donors (which?) would you lose if you aren&#8217;t using social networking regularly?&#8221; I actually think that&#8217;s pretty quanitfiable, as most non-profits have to describe their donor/constituent profiles in foundation proposals. Similarly, &#8220;How many/which donor circles from your constituent profile will respond if you do cultivate them in this way?&#8221; Again, in fundraising at least, we assume that each donor can, when motivated, leverage another 4-5 to the cause.</p>
<p>The other ROI I think could be useful is regular benchmarking. If we know what similar mission/size/operating budget non-profits are achieving with social networks, we can see whether we are ahead/behind/beside&#8230; with some numbers. Fundraising is quanitfiable and measurable, certainly, but it is a measure of the harvest, not what was planted 9 months ago and nurtured every day since. I am a big fan of starting small, as then you can make your mistakes, develop your style, in a small arena, and make wiser decisions when you expand.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1635</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1635</guid>
		<description>Good dialog about ROI.  We are getting started with these tools at Coastal Community Foundation.  We’re building relationship by finding friends and fans on Facebook.  I’m learning a lot professionally by using Twitter and try to put out helpful info along the way.  We’ve started blogging on issues we care about.  Will we see a huge surge in donations immediately?  Maybe not, but I think we’re off to a good start in building awareness in our community and I’m okay with that measure, as subjective as it may be.

@TinaArnoldi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good dialog about ROI.  We are getting started with these tools at Coastal Community Foundation.  We’re building relationship by finding friends and fans on Facebook.  I’m learning a lot professionally by using Twitter and try to put out helpful info along the way.  We’ve started blogging on issues we care about.  Will we see a huge surge in donations immediately?  Maybe not, but I think we’re off to a good start in building awareness in our community and I’m okay with that measure, as subjective as it may be.</p>
<p>@TinaArnoldi</p>
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		<title>By: Hump Day Reading for the Restless Soul</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1623</link>
		<dc:creator>Hump Day Reading for the Restless Soul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1623</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Social Media ROI Is A Compass And Not A Green Light at Corporate Dollar [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Social Media ROI Is A Compass And Not A Green Light at Corporate Dollar [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Fong</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1626</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Fong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1626</guid>
		<description>I blog largely on the impact of social media on direct sales from a corporate point of view, and the need for direct selling companies to begin to engage their distributors on the use of this media.  I think your post makes such a good case for how standard metrics fail to take into account the necessity of social media.  It&#039;s hard to quantify the value of relationships and networking, yet this is the foundation of direct sales.  It will be interesting to see how the case will finally be made for executives that are largely torn on the value of social media for their sales force.  I think, sadly, that it will take the extinction of the traditional sales model before some executives actually get it, and that&#039;s because of the issue you bring up...traditional ROI measurements cannot be used to fully express the value of social media for any company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blog largely on the impact of social media on direct sales from a corporate point of view, and the need for direct selling companies to begin to engage their distributors on the use of this media.  I think your post makes such a good case for how standard metrics fail to take into account the necessity of social media.  It&#8217;s hard to quantify the value of relationships and networking, yet this is the foundation of direct sales.  It will be interesting to see how the case will finally be made for executives that are largely torn on the value of social media for their sales force.  I think, sadly, that it will take the extinction of the traditional sales model before some executives actually get it, and that&#8217;s because of the issue you bring up&#8230;traditional ROI measurements cannot be used to fully express the value of social media for any company.</p>
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		<title>By: johnscotthaydon</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1625</link>
		<dc:creator>johnscotthaydon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1625</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;@Rachel&lt;/strong&gt; - I love this: &lt;em&gt;&quot;consider what you are going to measure and why (which are likely to be different for every organisation), rather than necessarily trying to shoehorn social media activity into the same models for evaluation your organisation has been using to monitor and measure ‘traditional’ activity.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;And this:&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;em&gt;&quot;It also implies to many a financial cost to income ratio model, which I find too simplistic a measure for social media engagement.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;
Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>@Rachel</strong> &#8211; I love this: <em>&#8220;consider what you are going to measure and why (which are likely to be different for every organisation), rather than necessarily trying to shoehorn social media activity into the same models for evaluation your organisation has been using to monitor and measure ‘traditional’ activity.&#8221;</em></p>
<p><strong>And this:</strong></p>
<p><em>&#8220;It also implies to many a financial cost to income ratio model, which I find too simplistic a measure for social media engagement.&#8221;</em><br />
Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Beer</title>
		<link>http://www.johnhaydon.com/2009/02/social-media-roi-business-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1627</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Beer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.corporatedollar.org/?p=5888#comment-1627</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more with that summary - thanks John and Beth for the highly sensible steer.

And thanks, all, for an interesting debate.

A few people have touched on it here, and I think it&#039;s an important point: to consider what you are going to measure and why (which are likely to be different for every organisation), rather than necessarily trying to shoehorn social media activity into the same models for evaluation your organisation has been using to monitor and measure &#039;traditional&#039; activity.

This makes the assumption that the ways ROI has been measured traditionally are the best, and most meaningful ways, and that these are useful models to apply elsewhere - when my experience tells me that many organisations did not take a broad enough view, integrate sufficiently well, or necessarily even measure the right things, before social media were in the picture.

It also implies to many a financial cost to income ratio model, which I find too simplistic a measure for social media engagement.  I do understand, however, that this will be the kind of evaluation many organisations will want to make when deciding whether to invest in social media activity.  I think that makes it all the more important to push the 3-stage ROI lifecycle point, and to understand and explain that it probably won&#039;t ever be that meaningful to measure ROI for social media activity as a simple financial equation, in the same way we traditionally have for customer/ supporter relationship marketing.

I often think social media are acting as a catalyst, challenging organisations to better evaluate - in the round - the impact and value of their efforts and think about how they measure the true ROI of any activity in terms of its contribution towards achieving their missions, rather than be hung up on the somewhat shallow measures such as volume and income - since these are often so misleading anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more with that summary &#8211; thanks John and Beth for the highly sensible steer.</p>
<p>And thanks, all, for an interesting debate.</p>
<p>A few people have touched on it here, and I think it&#8217;s an important point: to consider what you are going to measure and why (which are likely to be different for every organisation), rather than necessarily trying to shoehorn social media activity into the same models for evaluation your organisation has been using to monitor and measure &#8216;traditional&#8217; activity.</p>
<p>This makes the assumption that the ways ROI has been measured traditionally are the best, and most meaningful ways, and that these are useful models to apply elsewhere &#8211; when my experience tells me that many organisations did not take a broad enough view, integrate sufficiently well, or necessarily even measure the right things, before social media were in the picture.</p>
<p>It also implies to many a financial cost to income ratio model, which I find too simplistic a measure for social media engagement.  I do understand, however, that this will be the kind of evaluation many organisations will want to make when deciding whether to invest in social media activity.  I think that makes it all the more important to push the 3-stage ROI lifecycle point, and to understand and explain that it probably won&#8217;t ever be that meaningful to measure ROI for social media activity as a simple financial equation, in the same way we traditionally have for customer/ supporter relationship marketing.</p>
<p>I often think social media are acting as a catalyst, challenging organisations to better evaluate &#8211; in the round &#8211; the impact and value of their efforts and think about how they measure the true ROI of any activity in terms of its contribution towards achieving their missions, rather than be hung up on the somewhat shallow measures such as volume and income &#8211; since these are often so misleading anyway.</p>
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